PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

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PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Dragon on Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:14 am

I couldn't find a PVP thread so thought I would start one up.
Not much has been released about the PVP aspect of the game at this stage that I know of. Hope that doesn't mean that pvp is going to be something they tac on at the end (I really doubt that).
With the many battles between both factions you think some pretty large scale pvp would have to be on the cards.
Also lots of little skirmishes (ie one group trying to smuggle some plans out, one group trying to stop them getting off world etc) for pvp funz.

I want some massive open world battles (so much fun) but limiting it to certain areas seems like a great idea. I think the day of the pve or pvp server is unnecessary. Why not allow both types of players to exist together. I have some friends who love pvp and others who hate it. Why can't we live on the same server. Mini games is not the same thing.

I love mini games too. You can get your pvp fix any time of the day. Most mini games boil down to the same formulas though. Only so many times I can play capture the flag. Mind you hold nodes type game has more legs for me. The maps are critical for the longevity of mini games. PVPing in vent with your guild is so much awsome fun, if you haven't done it, you have not experienced MMO's fully. It is the cherry on top of the cake. That gear and co-ordination you have spent so much time gaining now comes in to use against a living and adapting opponent. An opponent that does not do the same thing every time you encounter it. One that ignores game mechanic threat and goes after your group based on real stratergy. You defend your group and attack based on real stratagy.

Sorry may have got away from myself there........hehe

Can't wait to pvp with a tight guild.

If you want this type of thing.....please vote yes for Dragon's application Smile Smile hehe.

Anyway time for someone else to ramble.
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Kevlar on Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:19 am

ffs, I paged back everything I wrote and it disappeared, so I'm just going to summarize it because I'm lazy.


There actually has already been a fair bit of discussion about pvp by the officers and elders.

But the problem is that not that much actual comfirmable information has been released by bioware in regards to it. So far all information about it has been third party or speculation.

Personally I would like to see some type of integration between traditional pvp pve systems. I've personally suggested that Bioware may go with some type of tag system where one would 'enable' themselves for pvp, while people who would like to avoid pvp and the inevitable griefing that arises from it simply stay in PvE mode.


Hopefully Bioware will have more to say about various topics we are all interested in this coming E3, though personally I would like for them to go into more detail about such topics then their PR responses thus far.


Last edited by Kevlar on Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  No'Saj Rol'Yat on Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:49 am

I agree with everything both of you have said. I am really looking forward to pvp in Sw:tor, but not neccessarily all the time, so a tag system and or Open PvP areas sounds great to me, so too does the 'Battleground Raid' idea I have heard thrown about recently on the forums.

I agree with Kevlar also, I feel we have some special times ahead of us with E3 coming in a matter of days. I am thinking Bioware will bombard us lots of information in the coming weeks and months leading up to first Closed Beta in around September/October would be my guess...but thats pure speculation ofcourse. Either way I think Bioware are itching to tell us more, and tthat spells good times ahead for us!
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Latiel on Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:31 pm

No'Saj Rol'Yat wrote:Battleground Raid

This.

I'm certainly used to the whole battlegrounds aspect that they used in World of Warcraft, but those are repetitive, have some exploits, are repetitive, are full of elitist folks who are absolutely obsessed with winning and being the best, are repetitive, and just stop being fun after a while, they're also repetitive. Raids against the other faction on the other hand seem like a brilliant idea, and I can only imagine what it would be like to actually be fighting players while trying to get through a dungeon rather than fairly predictable NPCs. Open world PvP is obviously a big thing, and it doesn't actually get extremely old, and repetitive, as capture the flag tends to. Again, World of Warcraft, the open world PvP in that game was one of the best parts, getting together with your guild and fighting other guilds, raiding towns to attract random players who feel like being heroes, and just fighting an intelligent opponent in general.

That brings me to my next point which Dragon already covered, but I really feel it needs to be stressed. Actually having to think in fights instead of spamming healing spells on the tank is much more fun than encountering waves of NPCs over and over. Yes, dungeons are fun, they're meant to be fun, but they get repetitive, (see where this is going?) and no matter how smart you try to program a computer, it will find a way to catch on some terrain and run in circles until you auto-attack it to death. Humans can think, and improvise, and aren't bound by the code they were programmed with. . . And if you were programmed with a code then you're a very strange human.

Flagging, tagging, and griefing, it's important, and it's a good system that other games already use, I expect to see it in TOR. Having the option to put up, or take down a PvP tag is what keeps the higher level players from just coming in and slaughtering hundreds of newblets. So. . . This is why a lot of people don't play on PvP servers, because there's always someone who thinks it's hilarious to waltz into a starting zone and slaughter everyone, a lot.
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Dragon on Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:04 pm

I like this Latiel person. She makes a lot of sense. If i remember rightly, even in WOW PVP servers you could not attack someone 10 or more levels below you unless they attacked you first??? I may not have remembered that right. This stopped griefing. AOC on the other hand was all in pvp any level, no factions. Lots of griefing. No fun!
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Latiel on Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:48 pm

Well, they implemented that rule in WoW later, but it started out with rogues just chillin' in newbie zones. Once that became a huge problem they started changing the way PvP worked. Dishonorable kills, can't attack people if they're too low level, stuff like that. Then it only changed slightly, rogues would still occasionally chill in newbie zones, and taunt the low levels just for kicks, or kill mobs in one hit just before the person tags it, repeatedly kill named mobs so that people couldn't complete quests. There are still a lot of ways to be a jerk in WoW. xD
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Jeme'Maer on Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:30 am

hehe, I remember those times in wow (those horrible horrible times), but I would not want our pvp to be anything as repetitive and boring as that. I believe that if several objects such as space, air, and ground battle can be effectively added into pvp (whether it be world or not) can add to a much happier experience.

In my experience Ive noticed that effective pvp can only be kept if it is progressive and it seems like it actually changes from time to time. Take a WoW battleground...its fun at first, then horribly boring because of its repetitive nature. I think that SWTOR battlegrounds could add a little flair by adding several different gametypes with randomly generated bases and such, with either having unique advantages to where their bases lie (and possibly vehicles/aircraft if the maps are large enough).

In world pvp I would say that there are an infinite amount of things you could have, especially with it being star wars. With guild bases, ships, and such you could give opposing groups a good goal of destroying your base and also protecting theirs by setting up turrets, npc's and other devices to help in protection (this would probably also get rid of the huge problem SWG had with all the player ghost towns). You could allow rather large guilds to put in a lot of money to stage an invasion on the enemy planets (not the starter planets). For the individual pvp'er though it is already said that the game isnt simply a hack and slash, your lightsabers will clash, your lightsabers will deflect, your guns will pack a punch on the enemy; so watching this go out all over the place will make for an interesting experience.

Is there anything I might be missing?
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Dessanar on Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:16 pm

I would like an battleground planet really that is not just run grab a flag heal heal run run and phew we won but something tactical with each class having to use it abilities to help win the day.

if you had the choice to fly to a certain planet and the pvp started once you entered space and to gain access to the planet you had to fight your way or fly by the seat of your pants just to even land to get to ground pvp i think that would be great.

I also like the tag pvp idea they had something like that in swg but i always forgot to undo myself and i would walk into coronet and get ganked lol.

i mostly cant wait to get
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Bahn Durm on Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:51 am

So then... now we have information concerning what they called "Warzones".
I'm enjoying this idea. I like the idea of the open warfare at anytime (world PvP), but I'm not going to be happy with it going on all the time so I like the warzones idea (instanced PvP).
Any thoughts on this new revelation guys?
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Kevlar on Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:59 am

Can we get a link Bahn? or is this just on swtor?
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Bahn Durm on Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:19 am

I would link something, but the G4TV site is down and I can't find the link to the EA conference. But at the conference they announced two things: that all players will have their own personal starships and that there will be instanced PvP called "Warzones".

The latter being what we're focusing on; they are supposedly (or from what they made it seem like) instanced battles of famous battles during the current war. Light vs Dark; Sith vs Jedi; Republic vs Empire. Yada Yada. I'll link it once I can find the video from yesterday's EA conference.
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Kevlar on Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:40 am

damn, instanced PvP sounds a lot like the goal orientated WoW battlegrounds, I hated them. Repetitive and full of twinks.

I'm hoping the PvP in swtor isn't all going to be instanced and goal orientated, otherwise it is going to be so lame.
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Bahn Durm on Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:52 am

Well, they already said, a couple months back, that there would be world and instanced PvP. Whether or not that means you're going to have to fight those with PvP armor in the open world area when you don't do those battlegrounds is a different story. We have yet to learn the full scope of this. Right now, it's people freaking out or celebrating one little whisper of a feature. Personally, I'll wait until get the full information to give a reaction.
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Bahn Durm on Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:12 am

I have a link to the EA conference!!
http://e3.g4tv.com/videos/46343/Electronic-Arts-E3-2010-Press-Conference/
They're last, therefore, if you don't want to wait through the other stuff let it load for a little bit and then hit to mark '70:56'
(yes I was the ultimate gamer nerd and watched all the conferences... it rocked)

But you'll find the current information out there. Enjoy!!
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Some more information from cyberspace

Post  Illian Amerond on Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:33 am

Found this great thread for those staying on top of things ^.^
Enjoy!
http://www.massively.com/2010/06/15/bioware-discuss-swtor-player-ships-group-gameplay-and-pvp-at-e3/
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Bahn Durm on Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:49 am

Great find, Illian!!
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Kevlar on Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:52 am

completely wooden performance speeches. haha
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Illian Amerond on Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:57 am

Bahn Durm wrote:Great find, Illian!!

Just a heads up there is a video that takes you on a walk through both starting ships! They look great!
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Jeme'Maer on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:00 am

Very good find! This actually quells a lot of questions that I had over space combat, crafting, and PVP all at the same time!
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Bahn Durm on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:11 am

Kevlar wrote:completely wooden performance speeches. haha

Krm?
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Kevlar on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:15 am

surprisingly about crafting, I'm glad. I always preferred WoW's crafting scheme better then many of the other mmo's I've played. (omg age of conan failed so hard at crafting)

as for PvP it looks like their battlegrounds type deal is kind of like a contested zone in wow, except it's instanced to make things fair. so I guess when you cross on over into the battleground, it teleports you into a unfilled battlegrounds. Then when it's filled up or finished, the game creates another instance and starts filling that up.

From what I gather there is also open world pvp on contested planets. I see no direct mention of PvE (open world PvP Disabled) servers or RP servers, I guess we'll see about that in future.

As for the player ship, I hope we get to customize our ships to some extent, it would be a shame for every player to get a ship but have them all look exactly the same. (A million identical ships in identical hangers on identical planets housing identical looking players =P )
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Kevlar on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:16 am

Bahn Durm wrote:
Kevlar wrote:completely wooden performance speeches. haha

Krm?

The G4 EA conference, at the end the SWTOR bioware and lucasarts reps, their speech was so wooden and scripted, you could tell they were reading from teleprompter scripts, reading badly as well.
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Illian Amerond on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:50 am

Yes I agree entirely Kevlar. The crafting system in WoW played a key element in the games longevity, however, it would be nice to see player made items trump out all but epic boss/mob drops to keep the player experience one step behind the boss/mob grinders.

As for the PvP, if they hold true to what they have disclosed, I predict an experience not unlike Warhammer Online. This would include general flag-able areas with the open PvP contested 'zones' that auto flag all participants. I like to think of this template migrating to the SWTOR world as it would enhance ground play a great deal.

I believe they may be working out the space combat system still, as during the interview space mechanics were barely discussed. This leads me to belie that they are working to develop a useable space combat mechanic so the game does not flop on its face like Star Trek Online *pauses to remove hand from face palm* We all do not want to see another debacle like that fiasco of all hype and big names and no delivery.

I believe their description of the live action gives us more information as to the roles of the classes in the game. They described the Trouper as a ‘main tank’; being healed by the Counselor whom I presume can play a role of ‘healer’ and was supported by a Jedi Knight performing a role of ‘off tank’. I see they described the Smuggler as a DPS class who strikes from cover which sums up the general gambit of class structure for the republic side.

So at this stage I believe the core class roles for each side are as follows:

Republic

Sith

Role

Trouper

Bounty Hunter

Main Tank

Smuggler

Sith Warrior

DPS/CC

Jedi Knight

Imperial Agent

Utility

Jedi Counselor

Sith Inquisitor

Heal/Buff

Any thoughts as to the two advanced roles each class has should be delivered during the E3 conference, yet I would not hold my breath. Building anticipation is one of Lucas Arts greatest abilities aside from producing great games.
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Kevlar on Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:03 am

I think the classes will be a lot looser then that Illian, from what they've shown so far, each class can spec towards exclusive trees. So I doubt a specific class will be stuck doing specific things like healing for conuslars only, likely it will be something like they can either spec healing/buffs or crowd control/AoE.

While the Jedi Knight will likely be Tank or en mass dps. While things like Agent and Smuggler will be one on one dps or crowd control etc etc.

What I'm trying to say is that bioware have made it a point that they wanted to stay away from the traditional fixed trinity system of Tank/DPS/Heal. While all of us agree that we can't really imagine something that doesn't resemble it, the likeliest they will come to is some kind of system where your character falls into different categories depending on how you spec it, not depending on what classes you pick.
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

Post  Illian Amerond on Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:26 am

I could easily see them moving out of the rut with the specialization tree system, and it would be welcome indeed. Yet I was just commenting on the interviewers described mechanics of a team defending a point against another team. At this point in the game I would think it is too premature to make hard and fast roles for the overall character classes, so I stayed away from the full prediction.

I believe we will see this in the demo tomorrow to clarify, so I will just leave this as a prediction that the classes will generically lean towards roles of the trinity with utility into other spectrums pre-advanced class tree system. I am still not clear as to when you will be able to select your advanced class least of all the offered talents/skills/abilities so theory crafting is right out.

I hope that in the coming days they will at least answer some of these basic questions and allow us to take steps forward in our preparation for launch. I am just praying I can make it into Bioware’s beta this time around. I have tested a lot of titles in the last 4 years yet none I really looked forward to play. On that note I hope a lot of us here make it in >.< having seasoned players is paramount to forging a strong backbone of any alliance.

Getting on top of the craft/enchant system will be my personal priority. I enjoy taking on the role of crafter/enchanter as it allows me to delve deep into the game and story while enjoying the pace. In WoW I played for a Guild called Brewers of Iron Forge, a collection of players from Portland and Vancouver, generally; yet we also had international members as well. My role in that guild was to procure elements for the craft/enchantment system while I leveled my own skills to mastery. It was a wonderful experience to be able to support and be supported all the while helping the whole accomplish its goals. Good ol’ militant honor and spirit ^.^
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Re: PVP - What do you know? - What do you want?

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